Before you decide to “become a christian” there’s a few things you might like to think about:
There are lots of religions in the world – what makes you think christianity is the only right one?
There are lots of holy books in the world – what makes you think the bible is the only right one?
Your teachers tell you that God gives us free will – but what kind of free will is it when choosing one thing over another brings condemnation?
Your teachers tell you that Jesus prayed for unity, yet over the years there have been hundreds of different “denominations” that cannot agree on the most basic common ideas and – worse still – fight amongst themselves.
Your teachers use fear – the antithesis of all they say that God is – to gain your assent to their petty teachings. “Believe as we say or Perish!”
Over the ages, the christian church – both protestant and catholic – has been responsible for the murder of countless thousands of people (witch hunts, crusades, inquisitions, hugenots)
Believe what you like, but think it through!
August 24, 2008 at 11:18 pm |
Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. There are many testimonies out there which testify to God’s love for his people:) Become a Christian and know it for yourself.
God Bless You !
August 25, 2008 at 4:33 am |
All the problems in the world come from one source: sin. Man has chosen to go his own way (spirit of satan); and then, he wants to blame God for the harvest (problems) that he sowed!
However, the writer of this article is right about all the confusion within the Christian world; there is only one truth, not 800 truths. The God of the Bible is not the author of confusion.
(1 Corinthians 14:33) “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.”
August 25, 2008 at 4:36 am |
If you want to see the real Jesus of the Bible at work, visit: http://www.ernestangley.org/miracles/
August 25, 2008 at 7:17 am |
I have been a Christian for over 20 years; in fact I was even ordained. I have since grown up and no longer believe in the Myths and stories of Modern and Traditional Christianity. Yes Jesus is lord and master, so was the Buddha, Gandhi and King. Yes God is very much real, but real in all of us; there is not one way for there is no need for any one way, for all roads lead to God because all roads are God.
The Stories that we have to believe to become a Traditional Christian are ones that we have created and must create to make the Bible true; we have to Anthropomorphize God to make the Literalistic view of the Bible true. So, God becomes Angry, God is a He, God rewards and punishes, on and on; what we have done is created a God in our own image vs. taking the Image of God, this is the true message of Jesus.
Most of the foundational truths of the Bible are just stories, stories that we say are true when in fact they are myths. The Bible did not fall out of the sky it is very much a human document organized by humans. Take some time and study the history of the Bible, it cannot by examination be the Unaltered Word of God. It may have God words in it, but it’s not THE word of God. It is not good enough to say “Because the Bible says it, then it must be true”
Consider this one point presented by Bishop John Shelby Spong, which is a cornerstone of Major Traditional Christian belief:
“The virgin birth, understood as literal biology, makes Christ’s divinity, as traditionally understood, impossible.”
Think about it, if Marry was not born of a virgin herself, nor anyone in her linage and understanding Modern Biology and how DNA works as the building blocks of the Physical Human. Then how can Jesus be without the curse of Sin that so plagues Mankind as it is believed by Christians. This alone makes the authority of the Bible and Traditional Christian belief suspect.
Most Christians cannot get past this and will revert back to the story that we have all been told by well meaning people as truth all because the Bible says it’s true. Therefore I close my mind to anything that questions it, this is the Christian way and produces fear, anxiety and close mindedness and is the point of the writer with regard to consideration of becoming a Christian as it is defined by Traditional Christian thought and belief.
In love…
August 25, 2008 at 8:20 am |
“Then how can Jesus be without the curse of Sin that so plagues Mankind as it is believed by Christians.”
Mary was overshadowed by the Holy Ghost. Jesus’ blood came from the Father. Though Jesus was flesh & bones, His Blood was divine; that is the reason the Blood washes away sin.
August 25, 2008 at 12:08 pm |
Dear New Homes…
Then if that is the case, In that Marry was overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit, then why not do that for every woman? That way the God would not have to sacrifice his son and Mankind would be rid of the curse of Sin.
Either God does not know anything about Human Biology or it just a story told from a 1st century point of view with a first century understanding of Biology. In Fact the Writer of John never even mentions it and Paul knew nothing of this great event either.
We are making this up, it’s just another Christian Myth created to try and explain the impact that Jesus had on people, i.e. “Wow, this Jesus is so wonderful, he must be born of God” and off we go creating stories.
We pickup on these writings and turn it into a Fairy Tale thereby forcing us to make up even more stories in order for our beliefs fit together.
In fact, how would the writers of the Gospel even know about the Birth of Jesus, the earliest Gospels were written almost 20 years after Jesus’ Ministry? In fact we don’t even know what the originals were because they were changed and copied so many times. There is not one Codex that does not have any Mistakes in them.
Check this out
http://awakenlife.net/2008/01/14/bible-facts/
August 26, 2008 at 1:13 am |
“In that Marry was overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit, then why not do that for every woman? That way the God would not have to sacrifice his son and Mankind would be rid of the curse of Sin.”
Who are we to question God’s methods? God is God and He will do as He pleases; that is stated throughout the Bible. The earth is His footstool.
It sounds to me that you have made yourself a side door into Heaven; it won’t work. There is only one way — and Jesus identified that road as being narrow.
(John 10:1-2) Verily, Verily, I Say unto you, he that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
(John 10:11) I am the Good Shepherd; the Good Shepherd gives His life for the sheep.
August 26, 2008 at 3:12 am |
Dear New Homes….
So in other words you don’t have an Answer?
So God must be in the Image that you have created. Using Bible Proof Texting to validate the Bible is a Circular argument, your point flies in the face of Modern Biology; why would God need to circumvent the process that God Created it? Why is that necessary? Is this just so God could send Jesus to the cross and suffer to prove that God is? What the point of all of this? Could God not come up with a better idea?
Does this not lock you into a story where to make this true one has to make God a bigger version of us, full of Ego, fear, the requirement to be worship and appeased or else you will be condemn to a Hell.
A Hell where according to the Bible was created for Satan and his Angels. And BTW, God Kicks Satan out and then places this new creation called Man, in the same realm where God’s Enemy was banished too, that sounds like a Story. I mean, did not God know that Satan was there, could God not have just placed Man on Mars or some other Planet free from the likes of an enemy that God just kicked out sometime in the past. Does this not sound like a great Drama, a Story, one not to be taken literally, but one that speaks to a greater truth. This literal approach forces the creation of more stories to make the old ones true.
This is whole point of what the Writer of this Post is making. In your world in order for you to be right, everyone else has to be wrong and that leads to the kind of events that the writer here is pointing out. Most Traditional Christians have no idea about the history of the Bible, let alone its negative impact it has had in the hands of those that are doing God’s will, from the Crusades to the Burning of Crosses and people I might add.
I can’t say that I’m not surprised with your response, it’s the Norm. Using the Bible to validate the bible is like the Blind leading the Blind. It is my prayer and hope that we all just grow up.
I will leave you with this one thing that I think summarizes what the true message of Jesus is without the fog of Fundamentalism and Literalism
http://awakenlife.net/2008/08/23/the-call-of-jesus/
Peace and Love
August 26, 2008 at 4:05 am |
Apparently, you simply don’t like the true & living God. He doesn’t force anyone to serve Him; you can chose the alternative — which is serving satan; and, you are on that road.
There are only two roads. As in the Garden of Eden, man had a choice. God did not make us robots.
August 26, 2008 at 10:54 am |
Dear New Homes…
Thanks for your concern over my soul, I appreciate it.
You have made my point, you as well many of my other wonderful people believe that God is a “He” Hmmm, in any case I will leave that one alone, I think I beat that one point to death.
Ok, so basically because of Adam’s Sin God holds the whole race guilty, and so needs a sacrifice to pay for the sin debt in full, right?
To take this literally is absurd.
So I commit some crime and the Judge says “you are guilty of the crime, caught Red Handed, your judgment is death” then Judge says “Plus, not only are you guilty of this Crime but everyone in your linage is guilty, all your offspring will also suffer the same penalty of death.” Then the judge considers what just happen, “wow, I really love this guy” , he thinks and comes up with a solution, “I know! I will have my own Son Die in place of this criminal before me, that way everyone will be saved and I can call it Holy Justice”.
This is the story that we believe and have told countless generations, then someone writes it down and later we are told to tell our children this is what God says, therefore it cannot be changed. To make matters worst, anyone who disagrees with this story and its solution will not be saved and will suffer death over and over again in a fiery furnace.
Wow, what kind of God is this? If this is the God you believe in, then you can have HIM, this is not the God that I know, the God of complete love. In fact the scripture says that when the disciples came to Jesus and asked how many times we should forgive an Offense, Jesus replies “70×70” in other words as often as required. I find it strange that we are held to a Higher Standard than God, a God whom in your version of the world cannot forgive HIS own creation, but requires you too.
August 26, 2008 at 3:46 pm |
Hi there New Homes,
Thanks for taking the time to coment! If you are up for it, I would really appreciate a straight and clear answer to the first two questions I posed in the original post. The two questions are:
Q1: There are lots of religions in the world – what makes you think christianity is the only right one?
Q2: There are lots of holy books in the world – what makes you think the bible is the only right one?
Regards
August 27, 2008 at 9:56 am |
Hi Jon,
“Q1: There are lots of religions in the world – what makes you think christianity is the only right one?”
Did you watch the deaf & dumb receive their hearing & speech in the all-powerful name of Jesus? I provided the link above. People are healed of AIDS too.
“Q2: There are lots of holy books in the world – what makes you think the bible is the only right one?”
Jesus confirms His claims through signs, wonders & miracles! He’s alive! Jesus is everything He claimed to be! Don’t pay too much attention to the “world” church system, insomuch as the real Jesus of the Bible is nowhere to be found.
August 27, 2008 at 10:08 am |
To evigilo – your posts prove that you simply don’t like the God of the Bible, so you have made yourself a side door; it won’t work. Unless you repent, you will find out the hard way. For the life of me, I would not want to find out that way.
With a sincere heart, look at the miracles in Jesus’ name; a link has been provided. God’s Word is preached & taught in its entirely — and Jesus confirms it with the same signs, wonders and miracles that He preformed when He walked the earth.
(Mark 9:25) “When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.”
May The Good Lord Open Your Eyes!
August 27, 2008 at 2:36 pm |
Hi NewHomes,
Well, to your credit at least you had a shot at answering the question. Well done. The basic problem with this line of reasoning is that many other religions report signs and wonders and healings and miracles too, but they do not attribute these to Jesus in any way. Using your logic, they could just as easily claim that theirs is the ‘one and only true religion.” Now you will probably argue that these other “miracles” are simply “counterfeit works of the devil”, but this just gets us back where we started because they could just as easily argue that their miracles are real and that your “Jesus miracles” are counterfeit. It seems to me that Jesus himself adressed this circular argument when refusing to perform a miracle for the crowd because he knew no amount of miracles would cause them to believe. And so there we get to our answer – Christianity is “right” for you for no other reason than because you believe it to be “right”, and not because it has in and of itself any intrinsic “rightness”.
Regards
August 28, 2008 at 4:16 am |
The doubters during Jesus’ day did not want to believe. They acknowledged the miracles, but they did not want God’s truth that was delivered via His Son. After Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead, this is what the people who did not want to accept Jesus’ teachings had to say:
(John 11:47-48) “Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles. If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.”
You see, they had an agenda not to believe, so is it today.
August 28, 2008 at 4:33 am |
In conclusion, if people really wanted to find out the truth, then they would do extensive research, much like a reporter or an investigator; but of course, many find it convenient to live in a world of ignorance to avoid accountability before God. However, that won’t work.
(Acts 17:30-31) “And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man [Jesus] whom he hath ordained…”
Friends – your eternal souls are on the line — and the soul lives forever. This is not a matter to be taken lightly. Satan lied to Eve in the Garden Of Eden to steal man’s paradise — and He succeeded. However, Jesus bought it all back with His own Blood for those who put their trust and faith in Him and His teachings.
Blessed Be The Name Of The Lord!
August 28, 2008 at 9:47 am |
New Homes,
I think it is clear that we could debate this back and forward all day and still not get anywhere so I propose we shut it down here.
I wish you all the best and thank you for taking the time to contribute,
Jon
August 28, 2008 at 10:16 am |
Jon – Thank You for allowing me to participate in your blog; however, I wasn’t debating, just allowing any of your readers to delve deeper.
Sending Forth Jesus’ Truth ~~
August 28, 2008 at 1:18 pm |
Hey Jon,
It’s been a while since you’ve gone down this road on your blog. I’m curious to know what sent you back down this road?
d.
August 28, 2008 at 9:07 pm |
Hi Doug,
Earlier on in my deconversion process I spent a lot of energy on this blog kicking and screaming about christianity before finally letting go. However there are still times when it bubbles back up to the surface. Lately I have been thinking about whether I want to get rid of all my old christian books so maybe that set me off. Or maybe – to be honest – it still hurts just thinking about all the years I was a christian and the fact that I have now let it all go. When we go married 17 years ago we planned to become missionaries. I have spent over 1 year in full-time christian training. I seriously considered becoming a pastor. I have invested huge amounts of time, talent and money into the church. Now thats all over and I’m glad but at the same time sad if that makes any sense. It is a bit like a divorce – you are glad to finally get on with a new phase of your life, yet also grieve the loss of what you have left behind and the sense of loss that things did not work out the way you had planned and hoped. I think posts like this one express my grief process that is not yet complete. It is almost like the death of a family member. It is right that they go, but you have over the years invested so much into that relationship that you still miss them and feel sadness and loss. As I have said before on this blog, after over 20 years as a committed christian who really gave it his all, the deconversion process that I have gone through this past year is the most difficult thing I have ever done. More than anyone else, this post is directed at myself, and are some of the questions that I ask myself.
Thanks!
August 30, 2008 at 11:23 am |
Truth always leads to more questions- that’s a maxim of mine. If I come to an answer that doesn’t allow me to ask “How, Who, or Why?” then I know I’m not near an answer at, but a dogma.
It’s not easy..you might be interested in something I posted a couple of days ago:
http://thefirstmorning.wordpress.com/2008/08/26/the-womb-of-god/
Having solid, albeit false, foundations upon which to stand does make things easier for a little while. But, they eventually crumble..
August 31, 2008 at 3:02 pm |
I understand the grieving process when something you once love is lost.
d.
September 1, 2008 at 8:22 am |
Hehehe, I feel you Jon, I have been there, only I called it an Addiction. Heck, I used to feel guilty when I would miss Church on Sunday. its the price we pay for Freedom from Dogma
Peace..
Gary
November 18, 2008 at 3:44 am |
Ouch! Right on point Jon. Although I’m still Christian, I’m not going to shove my belief down someone’s throat. I’d rather one be an honest practiser of another faith than to be a Christian, just to make others happy.
Glad to see you’re still in blog-land.
Peace!
March 2, 2009 at 5:24 pm |
seems like lots of the commentors need to read CwG or watch Zeitgeist to see that their Jesus story was rebuilt from other Saviour myths. I await the day that we describe Christianity as “Christian Mythology” the way we do “Greek Mythology” and other belief systems. I’m not saying CwG is perfect but it’s damn hard to refute when you really think about it. Oy vey.