Why?

Why I no longer wish to call myself a christian

I was a christian for over 20 years, during which time I have spent 12 months in full-time christian work (YWAM), have been a church musician for many years (piano, guitar), have been a popular preacher/teacher and small group leader (Presbyterian, Baptist, Elim, Apostolic). I own a bookcase full of christian books on a wide variety of topics, and can still remember the words to almost every Keith Green song ever written.

During my many years as a Christian, and I held that people that believed the same things as me would go to heaven, and everyone else … well, not looking too good. I took great care not be be adversely influenced by “wrong teachings and false doctrines”, and was incredulous that anyone could be deceived by the strange teachings of other religions, cults and sects. How smug and sure I was, within the 4 walls of my “Christian” church.

Nowadays, having distanced myself far enough away from that mentality I am appalled that I could ever have thought such a thing! How much of what I was so convinced to be “right” may actually have been quite “wrong!

Here is why I no longer wish to call myself a christian:

1) I do not wish to be associated with a religious group that teaches that the majority of the human race will be banished to eternal torment and damnation. The threat of hell simply places christianity as one more fear-based religion – “Do this … or else!” Many christians even go as far as to describe themselves in these terms, as being “saved.” They say God will do this because He is “just”, thinking that God deals with problems the way man does. If God so despised mans “sinful” behaviour, would He not simply not allow it from the start? If God would entertain the entirely unGodly thought of banishing people to everlasting punishment and damnation, would He not simply cause them to cease to exist! What purpose could He possibly achieve in inflicting eternal suffering? Thus the christians preach the most absurd of messages: “Come to God, He loves You, He died for You, It’s your free choice … but if you don’t, He will throw you into hell along with the devil!” This sort of nonsense is not Love, not Free Will, and not the truth! The great irony of their teaching is that they say “God is Love and Life” and that the “devil seeks to kill, steal and destroy”, and then depict a God that resembles the very devil they describe! They describe God as “father”, yet what father would send his own children to “eternal solitary confinement” just because the kid didn’t love him “correctly”? This leads christians to the bizarre position of defending pro-life on tha basis of the sanctity of life and its intrisic worth because we are creations of God, and yet also holding that human life is of so little worth that God will chuck most people onto an eternal bonfire. It is a damming (sic) fact that Christianity has associated God with dammnation to such a point that it has become a part of our language – Goddammed, Goddammit, etc, and in doing so misrepresents the true nature God in the most total contortion of truth immaginable.

2) If the christian message was so essential to our eternal well-being, then why is the church still squabbling amongst itself 2000 years later over the most fundamental question “What must I do to be saved?” If it was that important you would think it would be pretty clear. They can’t even agree on a definition of the term christian!

3) If the christians and the others is so fundamentally different that one group will go to heaven and one group to hell, then I reckon there should be a pretty noticable difference between the two groups down here on earth, right? Well the fact is there just isn’t.I have known hundreds, probably thousands of christians over my 40 years on this earth, and my simple observation is that they are no different from everyone else.  They get happy, sad, depressed, divorced, lucky, whatever just like everyone else on the planet. And I am sick and tired of the same answer to this “Well maybe your right Jon, but don’t judge God by the christians, etc, etc, blah, blah” This is just a cop out answer. There is no difference – end of story. By their own admission it just doesn’t work.

4) The religion of christianity is based on the bible, which they have renamed “the Word of God” (even though the bible itself says that Jesus is the Word of God), and they refer everything back to this book. They read it, study it, memorise it, quote it, learn it, repeat it, etc. I don’t want a religion that revolves around a book. They have made of it an idol fashioned from paper, ink and glue. This is no different to any of the other “non-christian” groups (you know, the ones going to hell), who also each have their “scriptures” which they claim to be inspired. I think the creation of the Bible by “closing the canon” of scripture was artificial and designed simply to allow for the creation of “orthodoxy”, a grisly tool by which “heretics” could now be quantified, and the masses contained. But of course the biggest problem is that the Christians are unable to answer the question “How do you know that the Bible is right?” (and other books are wrong).

5) I am unable to reconcile the difference between the god of the old testament and the god of the new testament, and thus am unable to determine what the “christian” god is really like. Richard Dawkins describes the God of the Old Testaments as “a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

6) I do not accept the idea that we are born bad, sinful, and in need of redemption. I do not accept that God the father had his own son murdered to satisfy his own anger against the human condition that he created in the first place. What sort of God is that? You, me, and everyone else – we are made in the image of God and that’s good enough for me!

7) Christianity, like so many other religions, has been, and continues to be, the sourse of much division between people both outside the faith (“I am a christian, you are not”), and also within it’s own ranks with not only denominations disagreeing with each other, but even members within a particular denomination! The christians tell us pray to Him (”God and Jesus”) who is “out there somewhere” (the worst dualism of the christian religion – the ultimate Two-Ness! which gives birth to the second worst dualism of the christian religion, that there are “christians” and “non-christians”. Not happy to just tear us apart from God, they are also determined to tear us apart from each other!). Not even a teensy weensy bit close to the prayer of Jesus “May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you have sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me” (John 17:23) 

8 ) I am just so sick and tired of churches. Sick of meetings and more meetings with the latest strategies for whatever. Laments of why people have left. Complaints about the worship, the preaching, the carpet, the colour of the walls. Pleas for more money. Gossip about church members. It’s enough to drive anyone away! Worse still I am sick of Christians who glibly dismiss any exploration of “non-Christian” ideas. Despite the fact that they teach humility, as soon as you disagree with them, I have experienced more than a few Christians who are arrogant, dismissive, condescending, patronising and belittling of any idea that does not match up with their Bible-based truth. Their closed-minded zeal leads them to logical absurdities that are obvious to everyone except themselves. For instance, try telling a Christians that, for example, human history is divided into ages that are influenced by the stars. The Christians will immediately scoff at this idea and point out that “there is not a shred of scientific evidence” that such an idea might be true. Yet the same Christian cannot see that “there is not a shred of scientific evidence” for every major Christian doctrine that they presuppose to be true.

9) When I was 16 I converted to christianity with a dramatic experience of joy and freedom. I was then told that masturbation was a sin, and since back then in those days I believed that what christian leaders said was true, I spent the next 8 years (I married at 24) battling and struggling and weeping and confessing and repenting against my own sexuality. Looking back I see now what a misguided and un-necessary waste of my energy and time! I am still angry at the church for having robbed me of so much of the joy of my teenage years because of this simple but stupid lie. The christian religion has done more to twist, contort and generally ruin the beauty of human sexuality than all of “Satan’s demons” put together. It is a sad observation that the most plain and bland of all sexual positions has been forever linked with Christianity – the missionary position.

10) I do not accept the exclusivity claims of Christianity. When Christians state that they are right and everyone else is worn, they simply expose themselves as they really are: petty, small-minded and trivial. Christianity is just another religion, with all the same forms and components of most other religions. Special buildings where they meet, all sit down and listen to the person up front, stand up, sit down, sing songs, repeat words. Special days. Special leaders and speakers. Special prophets and messengers. They believe the next life has reward for those who believe as they do, and punishment for the others. They have a special book that they use to justify their opinions and prejudices (they call them beliefs and convictions). They try and convince others to believe as they do, and view other world-views with arm-length suspicion. They place a separation between themselves and the “others”. Christianity is just another religion.

11) It is a telling fact that, the world over, children will tend to follow the religion of their parents rather than any of the other available religions. This confirms that christianity, like all other religions, is a human phenomena linked to culture.

12) One of the main reasons I finally left christianity is because it always placed me in a position of never being quite enough. Every Sunday, week after week after week, the pulpit would always use the same basic formulation of challenge: “Well everyone, today we are looking at prayer/fasting/tithing/you name it. Now I’m the first to admit I don’t do this enough, but … I just want to challenge you (in Jesus name) that we all really need to try harder at this as we accept to carry the cross” blah. blah. The message was always the same – that I’m no good the way I am, that I have to change, have to do more, and have to become something that is other than what I am now. When I finally quit church, what a relief to be rid of this horrible weight from my shoulders.

13) Our human minds are unable to grasp complex realities directly, so we create models which simplify things to a workable and manageable level. I have come to see that Christianity, like all other religions and ideologies, is simply a model. It is not the reality itself, simply a model of an underlying reality too large and complex for our comprehension. In saying I am no longer a Christian, I am saying that I no longer find the Christian model useful. Furthermore, I am acknowledging that Christianity is just a model, not a real truth. It has been said “all models are wrong, some models are useful.” From my reading so far, I am finding the New Age model far more useful in understanding the underlying reality of God and Man.

14) Other Christians would always go on and on about how “God has a plan for my life.” I came away from this with the impression that it was not up to me to choose what I considered best, but to always “seek God’s will for my life.” But (the problems of actually knowing the specifics of what God’s plan was for me aside) there is a deeper problem here. If God already has a plan for me, then what is the point of me having any free will? And if God doesn’t have a plan for me, then what is the point of having a God who cares what I do? Either way, given the knots I’ve seem poor christians tie themselves into trying to “hear God’s voice” and “do His will”, I’m glad to have nothing more to do with the whole racket.  As a responsible adult, husband and father, I decide what is best based on the information at hand, my desires and the desires of those around me. That’s enough.

  1. twolimeleaves
    August 21, 2007 at 8:56 am

    *whistle* Cheer Cheer!! *stamping feet* Go, Jon! May this be an exciting and satisfying journey for you! Dare I say, “Godspeed, as you depart!”

  2. August 21, 2007 at 9:18 am

    BinaryGreenHuedVegetativeExtremities,
    It’s a bit like having a sore tooth pulled out. One the one hand it hurts like crazy (and you are losing something that is a part of you), but on the other it’s just so much better once the tooth is out!
    This is going to be a process!
    Thanks for your words of encouragment!
    Jon

  3. preechaman7
    August 28, 2007 at 2:55 am

    I really like what you have done here, outlining why you are not a christian anymore. This prompts me to do the same, although I am not yet willing to let go of Jesus (not saying you are or have), maybe I can entitle my outline, Why I am no longer a christian,but still love Jesus. Would that work?

  4. August 28, 2007 at 9:21 pm

    Preech,
    “maybe I can entitle my outline, Why I am no longer a christian,but still love Jesus. Would that work?”
    If that’s where you are at then it’s the only thing that will work! I look forward to reading it! There seems to be certain steps that folk follow along this process of “de-conversion” (or whatever you want to call it). First they leave church, and then discover God has not struck them dead. Then they view the bible far for critically, and seperate the NT into the gospels and Paul. Then, Pauline doctrine largely dismissed, they are left with the gospels. But then, is this really what Jesus actually said? Then, and this is the last thread, they are left with just Jesus. Where you stand is your story and your journey. No one can say if that is right or wrong. My only comment would be do you not want to let go of Jesus because of fear (I just might be wrong after all!), or love (how can I lose this love of my life?).
    Jon

  5. preechaman7
    August 29, 2007 at 9:04 am

    My only comment would be do you not want to let go of Jesus because of fear (I just might be wrong after all!), or love (how can I lose this love of my life?).
    Ouch! I am not afraid of Jesus, but is it love? I would say there is love for MY understanding of who Jesus is, but is that who Jesus is? Good springboard. Thanks.

  6. Cassie
    August 31, 2007 at 6:13 am

    “I do not accept the idea that we are born bad, sinful, and in need of redemption. I do not accept that God the father had his own son murdered to satisfy his own anger against the human condition that he created in the first place. What sort of God is that?”

    Thumbs up! That does not sound like a nice God. Their own theology erases their theology-God is Love, they say, and then “But…” But?! How could there be any “buts” to God is Love? That’s not just a statement that God is loving but that God is the essence and embodiment of love, that nothing God could do could be outside of love. Love has no reason for a blood sacrifice because love keeps no record of wrongs and therefore could not put a condition upon forgiveness.

  7. August 31, 2007 at 5:46 pm

    Cassie, CWG goes even further and says there’s nothing to forgive! God has given us free will so we can do whatever we want (and suffer the natural consequences if need be!) We are not bad, sinful and in need of redemption – we are all made in God’s image.

  8. Stephen
    September 1, 2007 at 3:19 am

    Good to see you’re awake and re-membering who you really are! Welcome to the TRUTH the WAY and the LIFE, Jon–as God originally intended it.

    The fundamental message found in CwG WAS the same message Jesus gave us. The Bible’s version of things was not a malicious attempt to mislead us but rather a misunstanding of the truth. A misinterpretation, if you will. We just have to be understanding of his disciples–most of whom were illiterate peasants in a back-water Roman province–that they were not able to fully understand what Jesus was trying to teach them. These early followers (disciples) were looking for a Jewish Messiah and thought Jesus was it. They were Jews in both culture and religion and so they tried to reconcile the two–just as you struggle today to separate your Christianity from the teaching found in CwG. Don’t condemn the Bible, just keep in mind who wrote it and how they came to believe what they did. Remember, there is no right and wrong. It’s all a matter of perspective.

    As for me, I choose to follow The Way as exemplified by Jesus and explained in the Conversations with God book series.

  9. Cassie
    September 1, 2007 at 4:25 am

    I agree totally with that message, Jon. I just think the message of forgiveness is a beautiful thing that got trampled on by Christians and their conditions. They would come to the understanding of nothing to forgive if they first understood forgiveness. Forgiveness is only available in this messed up world where we are all blaming ourselves and making victims and villians. When we are still feeling guilty, forgiveness washes away all our ‘sins’. That’s what Christ’s message was about in the first place. “Stop thinking you are sinners and go out and love each other!” How many actually listen to that message? They are always condemning themselves and others.

  10. September 1, 2007 at 10:55 am

    Stephen/Cassie,
    During my first reading of the CWG trilogy, one of my questions was “is this a development (progressive revelation) of christianity, or something else, incompatible and different.” My opinion has been that the two models are irreconcilable. Sure, there are things in the bible that overlap – especially the “I AM” statements, BUT (but) there are also lots of things that are very different. So rather than trying to just pick and choose the biblical bits that I wanted (that’s one of my criticisms of the christians!) I felt it better to simply throw out the bible and start again with a “later revelation”.

  11. September 1, 2007 at 5:36 pm

    Hi Jon, I totally agree with you. Christianity as with all other faiths have their flaws, simply because it’s human trying to understand God and our understanding is always full of flaw. Even certain parts of CWG I find it hard to accept but there are many other enligthening principles there that helps me to create meaning in my life. :)

    So I believe that I won’t condemn any way or anything or anyone, but to test all things for my experiences and embrace those that give me meaning. So far, CWG has tested out many of its teachings and I find them working very well for me now.

  12. Cassie
    September 3, 2007 at 9:41 am

    Jon, I guess I’m one of those Christians you criticize. :) I pick and choose what I want to believe in the Bible. Whatever aligns with love I believe, and whatever points away from love I don’t believe. But, I don’t think it matters. All spiritual books contain truth and not-the-truth. Just because it’s not the absolute Word of God doesn’t mean none of it is valuable.

  13. Janet
    September 3, 2007 at 9:30 pm

    The funny thing is, that I do believe that people (such as myself) who are agnostic about God know more about the Bible and what’s it’s Literally Saying than most Christians. I mean, after studying the book, where-upon I am free to be cynical and note contradictions because I’m not trying to feel anything spiritual, it’s obvious that a) the majority of the prophets of the Old Testament needed psychiatric attention, b) God is just as confused about we are and enjoys spectacle and bloodshed, c) Jesus will return to Earth (siting Revelations here) and I don’t want to be around when it happens.

    As a post-mormon, I know that freedom of discovering a different way to think and live. There is nothing you can do to short-change yourself more than rely on faith to shape your ethical persona rather than live an ethical life yourself, not because you are afraid of hell, but because you believe in yourself.

    I could go on and on about religion. I have made it of special interest to study religion, ethics, philosophy, sociology, and plan to write a book about it sooner or later. But for now: Go Jon Go!

  14. September 3, 2007 at 10:30 pm

    Hi Janet,
    I find it amazing that how we “read” the bible depends sooooo much on our presuppositions toward it. Chiristians read it and say “yes, that’s so true” and others read it and say “What non-sense”. It just goes to show that we are not nearly as rational as we kid ourselves to be. Now Janet, get writing that book. I think it would be very valuable if you could write an honest, readable account of your journey out of Mormonism that let’s us see not only your thoughts, but your feelings too. It is not just an intellectual exercise, but a very painful and difficult transition not unlike a divorce. If you are willing, that would be a great gift to give. Of course I get an signed copy too!
    Peace,
    Jon

  15. September 3, 2007 at 10:33 pm

    Cassie,
    Well I guess this is just something I’m going to have to figure out for myself. I have always been taught that the “Holy Bible” is the “Wholly Bible” – all or nothing! They say “It’s not a smorgasborg”, etc. For now, I’ll just leave it. Maybe I can come back to it a bit later on.

  16. bandgeek05
    September 4, 2007 at 2:55 pm

    I came across this blog and can honestly say that I am rendered speechless. God knows your hearts and my heart goes out to all of you on the day you die.

  17. September 4, 2007 at 3:30 pm

    Bandgeek05,
    Thanks for stopping by. This is a very, very common comment from well-meaning christians, but just reflects the real root of the christian religion which is FEAR – “If you are not a christian when you die then you will go to hell.” My God is not that sort of God, and I am glad to no longer be part of such a horrible religion.

  18. September 10, 2007 at 10:23 am

    John, I am a follower of Jesus but often deign to label myself as a Christian. I am not crazy about labels anyway, but for many of the reasons you cite, I feel the Christian label is well past usefulness. To paraphrase Gandhi, I like Jesus, it’s many of those Christians I am not too crazy about.

    That being said, your description is far from universal. There have been one or two people that seem to have gotten it right, some of them were even Christians. ;) Although you do a credible job describing Christians, not everyone chooses to follow Christ or study scriptures in those ways.

    I haven’t explored much of your site yet so forgive me if this is begging the question but are you an atheist or are you just tired of the hypocrisy that so infects religious Christianity? (As I am as well.) I wouldn’t suggest throwing the baby out with the bath water.

  19. September 10, 2007 at 10:33 am

    Hi Christian,
    Thanks for calling by! No, I’m not an athiest – probably the exact opposite in fact! I am utterly convinced that God is All There Is, I’m just not so sure I believe in all the rest. If however you meant athiest as meaning that I don’t believe in the christian God, then the answer is yes.
    Jon

  20. September 10, 2007 at 11:44 am

    Christian God, Jewish God, Muslim God, Hindu God, Aztec God, Egyptian God…..God is all there is. Too big for any one tradition to get it right.

  21. September 10, 2007 at 11:58 am

    Christian,
    Too big for any one tradition to get it all right … or all wrong. It has been helpful for me to understand different religions as models, models of an underlying reality of God and Man that we do not have direct access to, so we create words and pictures to try and grasp that reality as best we can.
    Jon

  22. September 10, 2007 at 6:27 pm

    Our task is to translate oneness into physical expression.

  23. heretoday
    October 16, 2007 at 4:11 pm

    I, too, have found myself to no longer be a Christian. I used to be little miss Sunday and thought I knew how I was going to live my life. I found myself in church one night singing a really powerful song. I started crying because…I just didn’t mean it. I felt so terrible for uttering such strong and meaningful words with no heart behind them. Instead of feeling ‘convicted’ for having the ‘wrong’ heart behind my worship, I felt convicted for continuing a life I didn’t mean. It came to the point where I realized my belief was just in case it was true. Just in case there really was a hell. I found/find it dishonorable to believe in anything simply because it ‘may’ be true. Why should I be luke-warm on a belief that has such strong ideas? Why should I be luke-warm on anything in life? I would rather be ice cold than anything at all.
    I do believe, though, that Christianity has many great beliefs. Beliefs that should be embraced for well-being, no matter if one believes in a certain God/religion etc. I believe that there are certain things that are innately the right thing to do for health of the mind, soul, body, and for survival of the human race. Integrity, altruism, thankfulness, giving, empathy, piety, good judgement, common sense, etc. are all things that are a great idea to practice no matter the god or religion. It’s sad we have to have a ‘religion’ to tell us how to live our lives. These are things we should be doing anyway. For once, in a very long time, I am finally living life without the constant fear of hell-fire. The only thing I fear now is the rejection and ridicule I face from my ‘Christian’ family and friends. I was always told in church that Christians were highly persecuted for their beliefs. Now, I am facing more persecution than ever from other ‘believers.’

  24. October 17, 2007 at 3:53 pm

    Hi heretoday,
    It is amazing how many Christians respond to the deconversion issue with “what if you are wrong?” So much fear! And yet paradoxically they harp on and on about their God of love!

  25. October 19, 2007 at 8:43 am

    Hey guys, don’t shoot the messenger. Well, maybe you should shoot the messenger and burn the message as well. But the message that you have been getting. and that message is not the gospel.

    The gospel of love, forgiveness, compassion, sacrifice and service – not hellfire and brimstone. Those teachings are from the ‘fase prophets’ that Jesus warns us about. The church has been intoxicated on power for so long that it has become a truly toxic religion in many respects. But their are still some people who take God’s message of love seriously.

    The problem with only looking within ourselves for clarity and purpose is that we may not know when we are lying to ourselves. One great benefit of relying upon the authority of God is that we have a standard, and understanding of the truth.

  26. heretoday
    October 19, 2007 at 12:02 pm

    It is so hard for me to believe in a God of love when all I have to go by is what is written in the Bible. If read, it clearly shows a God of wrath, jealousy, and condemnation. How can millions upon millions of human beings burn for eternity simply for not accepting that someone died for their sins? That is not logical or humane.
    I didn’t intend for an argument or re-conversion by voicing my deepest, inner thoughts on this discussion board. So many mean well and have the best intentions. I appreciate the concern because I know from them, that is the greatest expression of love and caring. Have I gone to the point of no return? Probably.

  27. October 19, 2007 at 3:42 pm

    Hi, I just read half way through. It’s easier to see your point from a former-atheist point of view. One point that came to mind, which you might already know is that our God (yours still, right?) does EVERYTHING for His glory.

    I’m sure you’ve heard that there are things we don’t yet understand. But it just seem that we are trying to interpret so many things our way, we want to have it our way. And of course its our nature to do such things. But through God’s eyes, its not about you, yes he loves you to core that you can’t even understand (please), but isn’t it about your relationship with the creator and him getting his glory?

    That’s what I’ve gotten out from 19 years of unbelieving and 2 years of being ‘christian’.

    And lastly, you must have heard this before, the relationship and religion difference. It doesn’t really matter if you have a library of Christianity media library, if its a religion for you instead of a relationship then you might not be getting the real revelation, right?

    [Bible is about love, constructed from Genesis to Revelation, about God’s love. He is God and you are not (doesn’t matter which God, you are smaller compared to him), its sometime hard to grasp the idea of love, especially His love.]

  28. heretoday
    October 20, 2007 at 9:51 am

    Living life in fear is not freedom, nor love.

  29. January 6, 2008 at 3:21 pm

    Thanks for being so honest with your thoughts and your feelings. I appreciate your transparency and hope that you will continue sharing it.

    Jon
    http://www.prodigaljohn.com

  30. Marc
    January 17, 2008 at 3:52 am

    Jon, the issue is not: “Should I be like other Christians and subscribe to all they say?” but, “Who is this Jesus and am _I_ going to trust him?”. Forget religion, membership, gripes against an imaginary grey bearded bully in the sky and anything else which clouds the core issue of _your_ relationship with your creator and what you want it to be.

  31. January 17, 2008 at 7:33 am

    Hi Marc,
    You say I should not “be like other christians and subscribe to all they say” Really? To you really mean that? Are you saying that I should just go ahead and ignore the teachings of the church, ignore what other christians do and say? Are they of so little value to you? 2000 years of church history, culture, collective wisdom, etc you dismiss with a few words. Amazing! It shows that, like me, you have come to disbelieve the empty Pauline promise of the “family of God”. But where you really lose me is with your “who is this Jesus and am I going to trust him?” Do you know Jesus? Have you met him, talked to him. You seem to imply that you do know him! Of course, neither you nor anyone else today knows him at all. What you actually “know” is what is written about him in a 2000 year old book. You have no way – no way whatsoever of knowing whether JEsus actually said and did what the gospels claim, so you have no option but to blindly believe. Go ahead, just don’t wait for me. Finally you say that I should trust Jesus. Why? Trust him for what? Trust him that he will not send me to hell? Trust him that he will make me feel happy. What? What should I be trusting him for that I cannot get by myself? You end by stating that the core issue is my relationship with my creator and what I want it to be. Great! I see that actually you are a New Age follower who has been cleverly pretending to be a concerned but hopelessly misinformed christian, as this is exactly what New Age teaches! Out with biblical absolutes (which churches have never been able to agree on anyway) and in with subjective reality. Good one Marc!.

  32. morambler
    May 30, 2008 at 11:28 am

    Hi again Jon,
    Having just discovered your blog, I have enjoyed reading it, as much for your obvious literary abilities as for your in-depth, and analytical thinking.
    Of course, I can’t answer your questions, only you and God can do that.
    What I would like to do is interject a few thoughts of my own. (for what it’s worth.)

    1. I don’t remember reading the term ‘Christian’ anywhere in the historical records of the time, although I am far from being an expert on the subject.
    That would suggest to me that the term, as it is commonly used today, is an invention of man. The english translation of the King James version uses the word ‘disciples’ to describe those who were followers of Jesus.

    2. That, coupled with the fact that the first officially recognized ‘Church’ was organized by the Roman Emperor … Augustus? who then converted to ‘Chrisitanity’. (obviously a political move resulting from the Roman’s inability to eradicate the movement. If you can’t destroy them, politicize them!) This is the church that became the Catholics of today.

    3. Having been in the hands of the Catholic Church for centuries, and translated many thousands of times, is it unrealistic to assume the ‘scripture’ was rewritten for convenience a time or two? We know they modified the ten commandments.

    4. Since we know that ultimately the only thing that matters to each of us individually is our ‘personal’ relationship with God, why would we let a Man tell us what to think? (preacher) Are we all so unable to think for ourselves? To read the same books he reads?

    5. It has been said, and I agree, “The Devil does his best work among God’s people.”

    6. I don’t believe God ‘sends’ anyone to Hell, rather that if we are not accepted into Heaven, there IS nowhere else to be. Anywhere outside of his presence will BE Hell! Especially since, once dead, all of our self-delusions will no longer serve us or distract us, and we will be unable to ignore ultimate reality.

    7. And about that… Being accepted into heaven can never be earned by being ‘good enough’! Being accepted into heaven depends ENTIRELY on us being forgiven for our ‘sins’. The best explanation I ever heard of what ‘sin’ is, it’s just anything that is NOT like God, or his way of doing things. It’s neither ‘good’, or ‘bad’. It’s just not like God.
    Another good explanation would be that it doesn’t have good results, in other words, it just plain doesn’t work! Adultery usually doesn’t have very good results, but boy does it ever ‘feel good’. For the moment. Then reality catches up…..
    Someone once said that the Ten Commandments had been taught entirely out of context for a long time. That the Ten Commandments were not God saying: “Do this because I say so, or I will burn you in Hell!” But rather that they were God saying: “Don’t do these things, because they don’t work!” (or bring ‘good’ results)

    In closing, just let me say this, I believe that anyone TRULY searching for God (as opposed to just an excuse to do their own thing) will find him, no matter how ardorous or convoluted the path that leads to him.
    Churches as we know them are generally just social groups, and a way to control the thinking of the masses. They are not about finding God.
    In my own case, the more I studied Bhuddism and the Tao, the more I understood about this phenomena we call reality that God has created.

  33. May 30, 2008 at 10:25 pm

    Hi Mo’,

    Thanks for this long comment!

    1. The term ‘Christian’ (or as it is translated in English) first appears in the new testament (Acts 11:26) as a nickname for the ‘disciples’ in Antioch.

    2. Constantine “officialised” christianity in early 300’s, declaring it a state religion. It is pretty clear that this was a political move to unite those who followed the older Roman religion with the newer “Christians” which together comprised a crumbling empire. It is well documented how he amalgamated many of the symbols of both into one new entity, which formed the basis of the Roman Catholic church (eg: Mother and baby symbol, Sunday worship, 25th December, etc)

    3. The question is not really “has the Bible been mistranslated over the centuries” because we have discovered documents early enough to be pretty close to the original greek documents. The question is now more along the lines of “ok, now that we have a reliable translation of what the NT writers actually wrote, so what?” How do we know that what the gospel writers wrote was actually what Jesus said? And, although less well known by the average christian, which of the early writings should be accepted as authoritative, as there are many other gospels that date from a similar era that for some reason are not accepted as “gospel”. Thus the whole idea of “orthodoxy” is just a man-made idea to get everyone on the same page so they can be controlled.

    4. The heavy reliance on the “up the front preacher” that we find in modern churches grew out of the reformation. It is ironic that modern christians place such importance on them when their own bible teaches that “you do not need anyone to teach you” (1 John 2:27)

    5. I don’t think there is such a thing as a devil except where people choose to imagine there is.

    6. Heaven and Hell are rather childish appeals to human greed .and fear. “Do what I say” and you will be rewared with eternal paradise. “Don’t do what I say” and you will be punished with eternal suffering. Um … I don’t think so.

    7. When I began the de-conversion process over a year ago, I would have agreed with you on this. But now I would say that there is neither heaven nor forgiveness. Just each of us free to choose the express ourselves as Who We Really Are and Who We Desire To Be.

    In reply to your final comment, I have also abandoned the idea of finding God, as if “he” was somehow apart and separate from me. I am God and God is me, part of All There Is. (My Father and I are One).

    Thanks for your comments, and I wish you well as your continue to remember Who You Are.

    Regards,
    Jon

  34. Anonymous
    May 31, 2008 at 3:57 am

    Interesting. I mostly agree with the first six and one half points of Jon’s last comment and I consider myself to be a Christian – nope, nope, scratch that – a follower of Christ. As far as number 7 goes – who knows what the hell the bible means by the term heaven? No one, really. But forgiveness is the thrust of the gospel and it should be the core of our lives. Without forgiveness of ourselves as well as others we will find ourselves in a hell of our own making (and often do).

  35. May 31, 2008 at 8:41 am

    Hi Anonymous,
    I agree that forgiveness is an important ingredient for healthy living, so if thats what you mean by “the thrust of the gospel” then no trouble at all with me. However, I most certainly do not go along (any more) with the christian idea that god has a standard or expectation that we must live up do and is displeased and angered with us when we don’t. So displeased that he in fact is prepared to destroy us. Unless of course we appropriate “the work of Jesus on the cross through faith”. etc. etc. There are so many things I don’t buy with ths model I have really come to the end of even wanting to debate the point any more. If it serves you to use this model, then by all means us it, but not because it is intrinsically true, but because it serves you in expressing Who You Are. I have now fully embraced the New Age model of the book “Conversations with God” which pressents a model where God does not care at all what we do, does not desire or need our obedience, worship, adoration, etc, because he is already All There Is. But that’s another story ….
    Thanks for swinging by!
    Jon

  36. May 31, 2008 at 8:51 am

    Thanks Jon,
    I have REALLY enjoyed this! I consider myself fortunate to have made your aquaintance. I think reading your work, and having this conversation has helped me along my path which is one of the greatest gifts we can give each other.
    I can really empathize with your desire to not even discuss the whole thing further, and approve and honor it.
    Most of my self development today has centered around non-attachment to specific, desired outcomes, but that is a story for another place and time.
    Again, I am glad our paths have crossed, and have resolved to develop a blog around the subject, maybe even a forum if I could figure out how to keep it on-subject! Ha!
    May the wind be at your back!
    David

  37. May 31, 2008 at 8:52 am

    Sorry, I usually am logged in as morambler!

  38. May 31, 2008 at 8:59 am

    Hi David,
    I would greatly encourage to you persue the idea of living without expectations of certain outcomes. Not to be confused with having desires. This is a great key to grabbibg hold of a lot of enjoyment in life that would otherwise be snatched away from us.
    One blog I can recommend is tobeme.wordpress.com as a great source of practical “how do I do this in everyday life” advice for this sort of living.
    All the best!
    Jon

  39. May 31, 2008 at 2:56 pm

    Jon, I agree wholeheartedly with you. Although I do see Christ as the incarnation of God, how God wants us to see him, I do not hold to that model that you object to. In fact, the life of Jesus would tend to refute that view. This whole incarnation as sacrifice for our shortcomings seems to put a very ‘human’ face on God, with all it’s attendant devotion to ego.

    Anonymous (I don’t know why that’s why that was my signature)

  40. May 31, 2008 at 7:24 pm

    Hi Christian,
    Welcome back – thanks for dropping by! In not holding to the model that I object to you marginalise yourself from the majority of christian thought from the past 2000 years, which has clearly held and taught the view that we are born sinners, and – unless saved – will enter hell. However, I will admit that many modern church thinkers are remolding hell in more metaphorical terms, as you seem to be doing. However, just about any group that labels itself christian will still hold the view that we are sinners in need of salvation – an idea not present in the new age model.
    I appreciate your thoughts and gentle approach, however – as I have already said – I have now moved on to the point that christianity is simply not something I have any further interest in exploring or even discussing, as I have discovered other models of God and Man that are far more useful and constructive for me.
    Regards,
    Jon

  41. June 1, 2008 at 11:23 am

    “Christianity” is something that no longer holds my interest as well. But….the teachings of Jesus do – as well as Gautama and others. Personally, I don’t wouldn’t want to cut off any avenue of discussion, unless of course that avenue leads one to unnecessary conflict.

  42. AndrejS
    January 10, 2009 at 12:54 am

    i dont know why people dont see that god was invented by Men … it was done in ancient times, when men did not know how to explain things… that wore “god” like…. in times when life was a lot harder… .. i think i dont have to explain how was living in ancient times.. and so on… religions and “god” brought out a lot good things… but a lot of bad things also… look how many people wore killed in the name of god… and so on…

    for me religion has one value only… thats … and only if its done proper… to teach right from wrong… our children… i was raised as christian… .. but i dont believe in god… i did… when i was a little kid and i was still bealiving things like there is santa clause… and when i learnd to thing for my self…

    i can say .. live.. and enyoj life… dont be constrained by religion… but.. i never did nor will ever.. try to persuade anyone not to believe or to believe in god … everyone has a choice…

    if you respect some one.. then respect they theyr beliefs…

    my gf is muslim.. and i respect her and her religion… and i’m learing about they customs.. so i can better understend in what she believes… but i dont believe in god…

    you could say that i believe in nature :) .. as all atheist hehe :)

    sorry for my bad english :) hope you understand everything i wrote :)

    just my two cents…

    greeting from Croatia :)

  43. January 11, 2009 at 10:34 am

    Andrej,
    Thanks for your comment. Yes, all Gods are invented by us. “Conversations with God” describes it as “we have made it all up” (including what is written in Conversations with God!) While it is important to teach our children right from wrong, it is a greater lesson to teach them how they can decided for themselves what they wish to call right and wrong, and in doing so define themselves.
    Regards,
    Jon

  44. November 10, 2009 at 5:17 pm

    Thanks for the great website, Jon.

    Your journey sounds very similar to mine. After almost 20 years, I am no longer a Christian. (I still find it difficult to say that).

    I did the YWAM thing too, plus the preaching, music, leading worship, etc.

    At the end of the day I had to be honest with myself and use my reason rather than just accept what I was “supposed to beleive”. As a software developer, the latter now sounds to me very much like installing software into your brain.

    I’ve lost count of the number of tmes I’ve heard people say “You can’t pick and choose what you beleive”, and the ironic thing is that is precisely what we must do.

    I don’t know if you’ve read him, but one theologian I’ve found helpful is John Shelby Spong. He’s helped me realize that it is possible to have a healthy spiritual life which doesn’t include superstition, dogma and imaginary friends.

    Keep up the good work

    Neil

  45. March 15, 2010 at 7:17 am

    Hello Jon,
    great website! I’ve stumbled upon it while surfing for weblogs of other ex-YWAMers. A few days ago I launched a weblog about the topic – it’s still pretty empty but that will hopefully change soon. I’ve taken the freedom to make a link to your site – if you don’t agree, would you let me know and I’ll remove it again.
    Lots of wisdom and peace of soul in your journey!
    Daisy

  46. March 15, 2010 at 10:19 am

    Hi Daisy,

    There is great support in the blogosphere as we each make our way out of the religion we have grown up with and into the adult world of declaring our own truth.
    My blog started over 2 years ago as a christian trying to make sense of church, and ended as a complete de-convert!
    You of course must find your own way, and I wish you well.
    Jon

  47. Anonymous
    April 7, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    Hi Jon

    Just wanted to say that to me, you sound like a hurt broken little boy. God is God, and he has created you wheather you like it or not. I’ve read alot of your statements and everything points back to someone who still doesn’t really know who they are.

    You have no right to speak into peoples lives the way you do, when you have never truley had a relationship with God yourself.I hope you search a little deeper and stop judging those who care about you the most. Life is to short to live in the past Jon, move on, stand up and enjoy every breath you take.

    Andrea

  48. April 7, 2010 at 3:29 pm

    John,

    I hope it’s not too out of place for me to respond to another comment, so please feel free to delete this if you deem it’s inappropriate.

    Andrea, I own up to being someone who has been hurt and broken, and I’m grateful for it, because it helped me admit that my arrogant simplistic view of the universe needed revising. To just say “God is God, and he has created you wheather (sic) you like it or not” sounds pretty simplistic to me. Unfortunately, those sort or platitudes didn’t cut the mustard for me once I summoned up enough courage to critically examine and re-evaluate my faith.

    When you say “you have no right to speak into peoples lives the way you do”, who do you think does? Is it only people you decide have a “relationship with God” that can share their journey? Are you saying anyone who doesn’t fit into this category has “no right to speak”? That sort of approach might work in Saudi Arabia or North Korea for a while, but we don’t live in a theocracy.

    We can learn from anyone’s experience regardless of whether or not we agree with their philosophical position.

    I agree with you that we all need to “search a little deeper”. Something isn’t true just because a “leader” told us it was true.

    In my experience, I’ve only been able to “stand up and enjoy every breath I take” since I broke the fundamentalist brainwashing that I received in places like YWAM and the “every word of the bible is true” church.

    For me, life has never been better. You should try it sometime :)

    Neil

  49. April 7, 2010 at 7:15 pm

    Hi Andrea,
    Thanks for taking the time to comment. I wrote this list over two years ago while I was deep in the process of deconversion, and yes, at that time I was hurting a great deal as it was a grief process for me to “lose” something I had invested so much of myself into for 20 odd years of my life.
    As for your comments I have long since learnt the futility of discussing with Christians so I will simply leave my response as “I wish you well on your chosen journey”
    Regards,
    Jon

  50. April 7, 2010 at 7:18 pm

    Hi Neil,
    Thanks for your reply, and no it is neither out of place nor a candidate for deletion! This is a public blog.
    Andrea/Neil – with all due respect, should you wish to continue your debate please do so on either of your respective blogs as the subject is no longer of any particular interest to me.
    Regards,
    Jon

  51. Anonymous
    May 18, 2010 at 9:35 am

    Just wanted to say that to me, you sound like a hurt broken little boy. God is God, and he has created you wheather you like it or not. I’ve read alot of your statements and everything points back to someone who still doesn’t really know who they are.

    You have no right to speak into peoples lives the way you do, when you have never truley had a relationship with God yourself.I hope you search a little deeper and stop judging those who care about you the most. Life is to short to live in the past Jon, move on, stand up and enjoy every breath you take.

  52. A happy person!!!!!
    May 18, 2010 at 9:57 am

    Totaly agree with this comment as you ARE nothing but a little boy. After reading your blog i have noticed you seem to blame everyone else but yourself for your mariage breaking up, chances are that if you are anything like what your blog shows that you would be impossible to live with. You talk like you know pain, you don’t no shit.
    All in all i think you need some serious counceling and to grow the fuck up!
    You’re not better than anyone else and you have no right to preech your bullshit views on anyone.

    Get a life and stop living on the internet. I can put money on it that you work in I.T and are a sad man.

    Have a shit rest of your life hopefully it ends soon and your “suffering” will be over.

  53. Anonymous
    May 18, 2010 at 9:59 am

    You are a little bitchy boy.
    The things you say are so pathetic.
    DO NOT imply to other people that your views are somewhat better or superior to anyone else. Only the most insecure of people would feel the need to write such complete and utter crap. I find it hard to fully grasp the exact reason for having such a blog where you simply speak into peoples lives, hoping that you’ll find an equally insecure person who for one moment in time may agree with your ramblings.
    People should be able to beleive what they want, do what they feel is right, and whatever makes them happy – that is what they should persue in life. You have no fucking right to dictate how a person should live. you simply do not.

    You are not God. You are a lonely man who feels the need to criticize the people around you. you are a jealous man and an incredibly weak man. When something good comes into your life you imediately get the urge to knock it down. you will never find what you are looking for because you are a selfish person who appears to think they are always better than the people around them. Stop preying on the vulnerable and learn to stand on your own two feet.
    You most likely spend all of your day infront of a computer screen and rarely socialises with people in real life. go get hard and meet somebody face to face you little bitch.

    From another very happy person

  54. May 18, 2010 at 6:26 pm

    Hi Andrea/Happy Person/Anonymous,

    Wow, that’s a big lot of anger that you are expressing there! I cannot think why you are passionately angry with me, so I can only assume that we have met at some point or perhaps have an mutual friend. If you are local, may I suggest that we meet for lunch (my shout!) and I would be more than happy to listen and try and understand why you are so upset with me, and hopefully find some positive steps forward. Let me know if you would like this, and I will give you my private email address.
    Regards,
    Jon

  55. Happy person
    May 19, 2010 at 8:44 am

    i am not local i live in taupo and i have never met you or no anyone that knows you. i just feel your views expressed here are totaly fuck.

  56. Sanja
    May 19, 2010 at 11:40 pm

    What’s the matter with you? And why do you call yourself a Happy Person? Your view and especially your attitude suck. Anger and frustration jump from even a few words you are writing. If you don’t like a book you stop reading it. Same is with websites. You don’t go around calling people names. Get a life and plug into something you do agree with.
    Jon, greatly appreciate your thinking and honesty!

  57. May 28, 2010 at 10:23 am

    Wow!

    I go on vacation, and take a break from my favorite sites, and come back to anger and outrage! And all because you exercise your right to voice your opinion, what in the world is up with that?

    Jon,

    I find this site inspirational – you challenge me to think! Thank you! And as for your origianl post entitled, Why? I’ve read it many times, and each time I take something new from the experience.

    I applaude your integrity and your willingness to so openly share your point of view – especially since it challenges popular belief.

    Libby

  58. oceanwaves
    January 18, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    Hi, I can identify with much of what you said here.
    This may not go over well, but I do believe in Jesus. However, I don’t like
    church very much. You may already know that there is a large movement of
    people who believe in Jesus but don’t go to church…..they have rejected the
    institutional church as we know it. Some like home churches, it varies.
    Frank Viola has some books and a website. For one thing, most if not all we
    accept and do in church is based upon paganism or tradition. Another guy
    named Malcolm Smith (Unconditional Love Ministry) also has some websites
    and some good things to say. Here are some guys who are more grace oriented:
    Steve McVey, Joseph Prince, Aaron Budgen of Living God Ministries. I don’t
    have all the websites on hand but a google search will turn them up if you
    are interested. Another is Loving Grace Ministry w Wayne Monbleau.

  59. June 7, 2011 at 5:34 am

    Thats a beautiful de-programming testimony. However, I believe the Bible to be a living word of God that in which was also the History book of the Jews. For whatever reason, the truth came forth and God appointed people to write and record events in that period of time to show that yes, there is a God, revealed His character, and that Jewish law was not enough for people to be saved and go to heaven. So enter in the New Testament, Jesus Christ- who fulfilled the scriptures. I also believe that The Bible is a cultural and historical text- so as to say, that is why there are contradictions in there. But the whole aspect of living for yourself and thinking for yourself, is delusion in my opinion . Because you have to ask yourself- if you say Christianity is all wrong- what makes you right? Where do your absolutes come from? You make up your own rules and live by your own idea of what you think is right, then that is a scary though. Suppose about the 10 Commandments- Thou Shalt Not Murder. What if you believed murder and stealing were correct, and the Bible is wrong?

    When man seeks to make his own understanding, that is what is corrupt. The Bible says not to lean into your own understand. If you’re a truly saved person and believe Jesus Christ as your Savior, I find it hard to believe you could walk away so easily from that. Millions will be decieved. But remember, God doesnt send peope to Hell. They make that choice. We are given free will. He doesn’t force anyone to be with Him if they make the choice they would not want to be with Him, because of his Love, He lets them go. God is just and fair, and that is what it is about.

  60. June 7, 2011 at 5:43 am

    I have to continue:

    Hell was not meant for us, it was meant for the devil and his angels. Hell is also NOT eternal. For only those in Christ have eternal life. If every person has their own idea about what being a “good” person is- isn’t that surely highly subjective? Far more subjective than the Bible could ever be. If the Bible is so wrong- where you do find truth? In self help books at Barnes and Noble?

    Science does not conflict with the Bible. They are not mutually exclusive. But what I dont understand is, people have a hard time with the Bible being written by men and saying that its a mythology. When these were events recorded in time. However, they will believe anything Scientists say- sometimes without question. Aren’t scientists men? And wasn’t Science invented by men? So, what is the difference?

    If you believe that life is accidental, then that is your belief. However, if you want know God, you know Him by His creation. That is where faith comes in. God is beyond our comprehension in our limited spectrum. So the Bible is the only way in which we could possibly understand about who He is. If you look at a rock, can you say that you created it? No, because you can’t create a Rock. So therefor, there is a Creator. Everything has a purpose. In a fallen state, there are lies and deception. Satan – The Father of ALL lies, is happy when people reject God, reject the truth, reject his Son Jesus Christ. He wants to win as many souls as possible. If you go to hell, it is strictly your own choice. But by grace, we are saved- and just imagine what Jesus Christ went through on the cross for us all. The agony he suffered, the pain he endured, and He knew it wasn’t in vain. He knew He HAD to do it . It all comes down to this: You believe in God, or you make yourself God.

  61. June 7, 2011 at 5:49 am

    The church is not Christianity. Christianity has nothing to do with religion. The church is for fellowship. The church itself today has become morally corrupt. It is hard to find Biblical truth even in the church today. Christianity is about a personal relationship with God the Father and Jesus Christ the son- the Holy Spirit. The Trinity . All three in one. This is the power behind the earth, the sun, the moon the stars, and everything in every galaxy. The church today is very worldly, and much of it becoming New Age . Its sad that new Christians will come to church, and leave feeling miserable, because the Holy Spirit left it. Thats not to say all churches are bad, there are some good ones left. But you dont need a church to find Jesus Christ.

  62. Anonymous
    June 25, 2011 at 9:44 pm

    Now you’ve only been talking about the church, the churchpeople, religion, and in many ways i agree with you, but what about Jesus? Where is Jesus in your story?

  63. June 15, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    its about relationship with God. thats it. period. I have been seriously hurt by religion and in the words of Lenny Bruce. “Everyone seems to be leaving the church and going back to God” amen with that. Fuck religion! it sucks. it is an institution invented by man to control the masses.

  64. June 15, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    oftentimes the walk away from God is more important than the walk towards God. ~scott peck

  65. Anonymous
    November 3, 2012 at 9:02 am

    in my darkest moment god proved he exists that spun me out what ever god is i dont know but i was rescued beyond doubt so i owe it to humanity to tell the truth i dont know why god chose me i think he knew something i didnt but the whole world was watching me so the message was passed on.peace

  66. October 14, 2013 at 1:30 pm

    I read this whole blog with sadness in my heart and the only reason i chanced upon it was because my pastors name is Jon Featherstone and i was googling it one night, i dont know why lol. Anyway Im going to put my 2p worth in.
    As a christian I know that on the face of it a lot of what we learn in Gods word seems all the things described above.

    First of all you talk about each person finding their own truth, is that really possible because surely our beliefs/truth have to be based on something for them to be true? Jesus said in John 14:6 that I am the truth so theres a STARTING POINT

    Secondly I love my children but doesnt mean they have to love me or obey me but if they do wrong ( and I make the rules in my house) they get punished for the “sin”, doesnt mean I love them any less.
    Sin deserves death and we choose, by our decision on whether to or whether not to follow Christ, seperation from God eternally or heaven where he is.
    Why is hell eternal? Because it seems we all assume that sin ends at the point of judgement, but the bible says they go on cursing God and sinning etc even after they are thrown in to hell so therefore it is eternal sin that he punishes them for.

    God is real wheteher you choose to believe it or not doesnt change the fact. He is received by faith, based on truth but not in the realms of the temporal we see around us but in the Spiritual realm which was the original realm. I dont believe if you truly met God all those years ago that you can really fall away from Him, I think it is the fact you never came to the place of intimacy with Him which the cross of Christ allows us now, that you can so easily turn away.
    Christianity is not a fear religion only ther fact that God says fear him who can throw both soul and body in hell.
    When we say the phrase MY God wouldnt do this or that its true but unfortunately that God id not the God of the bible but a made up “make me feel better” God of our mind.

    Salvation gives us eternal life, eternal joy, and eternity with our beloved saviour and God and I pray one day Jon that you will come to the truth of the gospel and forget about humanistic points of view because it really isnt all about us its actually all about him.
    As some one said
    Humanism says “the end of all things is the happiness of man” but the bible teaches that actually “the end of all things is the glory of God”

    Everything God does is perfect, not pandering to mans beliefs but perfect in him and thats what I love about him, he didnt have to redeem us but he chose to out of unconditional love
    THATS MY GOD

  1. September 6, 2007 at 10:25 pm

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

%d bloggers like this: